I'm disappointed by Ford. And impressed by Mazda.

"Zibodiz" (zibodiz1) 08/03/2014 at 03:15 • Filed to: car shopping, mazda, ford, cx-5, mazda6, fiesta, transit connect

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Today while I was in a neighboring city, I had a couple hours to kill, so my wife and I went looking for an RV dealership, as we're in the market for a new travel trailer. We couldn't find one. As we were driving towards Staples (the only place to drop off a UPS package), we passed a Mazda dealership, and I mentioned to my wife that I was really curious what the CX-5 was like. I'd read online about their fuel mileage with a manual tranny, and have been mildly curious about them for a while. I wasn't extremely interested, because I'm a serious Ford guy (all 3 of my cars are Fords), and figured my next would probably be a Focus or Fiesta ST, based on everything I've read about them.

My wife said "Why don't we go check them out?" I gave her in incredulous look, disbelieving that she wanted me to look at cars — that would be like me telling her that we should go hang out at Hobby Lobby — but she insisted that it would be fun, so we did.

We pulled up to the dealership, and looked at what they had; no wagons or even any 5-doors, so the only car I'd really be interested in is the CX-5. I'm a diehard wagon guy; a CUV is sort of a 'they didn't have what I wanted so I got this instead.' I was actually really surprised at how long the noses were on all of their models; they're not short, invisible-to-the-driver things like most cars being sold today.

We went in and asked the salesman if they had any with a manual tranny, and he said they didn't. They did have a Mazda6 with a 6-speed, but that was it. I asked if we could try out a CX-5 anyway, just to see if it was worth considering, and he happily complied. The one he chose was fully loaded with the backup camera and navigation, but I think those are the only optional creature comforts; he said that the rest of the things (adaptive cruise, lane assist, collision avoidance, push button start, etc) were standard on all trim levels, which I found surprising for a $20k car.

The car was actually a lot of fun to drive. It was basically just like my wife's first-gen Escape (not really a surprise, since the CX-5 replaced the Tribute, which was just the Escape with a different logo), but it felt more sporty. It definitely had a little more power and cornered better. It didn't have a lot of headroom; I wear a fedora, and it was hitting the ceiling when I got into the car. I lowered the seat until it was comfortable, but was still surprised to hit my head; I'm only 5'7". Overall, it was a pleasant experience, but not overly so. After all, it was still an automatic. He showed me the manual gear selector, but it was unimpressive and sluggish. I was, however, really curious what the manual would drive like, so he let me test the Mazda6.

I was really surprised. The car was a lot of fun to drive. It was a base model, but it was still equipped with all sorts of fancy features. He told me it was about $22k, which seems pretty reasonable for a full sized sedan. The clutch felt a little like a spring, but I liked it. The big thing, to me, was the fact that it felt like a sporty car, while being a full-sized sedan. If only they sold a Mazda6 wagon here in the states. He did say that the drivetrain was identical to that in a CX-5, so the sport edition with a 6-speed should drive about the same.

I was impressed enough with the CX-5 that I asked for the salesman's card, and may call him in a month or so to see if he has gotten in any with a 6-speed. I'm still very much in love with my Escort, but having a bit more cargo space and better fuel mileage at the same time would be pretty awesome. It would also be nice if I could have an excuse for avoiding replacing my clutch in a month or two lol. I wasn't looking for a car before today, but now I might be.

After leaving there, we headed to the Ford dealer. I was intent on trying out the Focus or Fiesta ST. What I found was rather surprising.

While the Mazda salesman was friendly and happy to let me try the cars, the Ford guy almost immediately wanted my contact information and gave me a card. I asked if they had any Fiestas or Focuses with a manual, and he said that it was only available on the ST trim level. While walking to the only Fiesta ST they had, I talked with him about how I wanted a fuel efficient fun car, so he brought up the 1.0L ecoboost. He told me about how the Fiestas are so much better than other cars, and how he tests all of his cars on a 1/4 mile-ish road behind the dealership. He said that the used "really fast looking" Hyundai Veloster he had only got up to 83 on the stretch, but that the Fiesta he had with a 1.0l made it up to 117mph in the same space. Okay, maybe it's faster than a Veloster, but I find it hard to believe the 1Litre hits 117 in a quarter mile. Or even a half mile. I just smiled and nodded. He showed me the only Fiesta ST they had, and informed me that Ford doesn't make the Focus or Fiesta with a manual, unless you buy the ST. He didn't have any Focus STs in stock, and he had just received his Fiesta ST, so he wasn't willing to let me try it — or even open the door — but he allowed me to look in the window. Undeterred, I asked to look at a Transit Connect, as I've always been somewhat fascinated by them. He let me test it, but first told me about how they were great people-haulers, and how they'd recently special ordered one with 3 rear bench seats, so that it could fit 15 passengers. I didn't really respond to that, because I have no idea how that could possibly be done. Maybe double-decker?

It was pleasant to drive, but felt much more like a minivan than I realized it would be. I had always seen them as mini work trucks — but they're seriously minivans. Not terrible, but not really my style. They were decent to drive, and EXTREMELY spacious (at least, I think so; the salesman refused to let me fold any of the rear seats down, although he insisted they fold down to only 1" above the floor level, which I find doubtful).

I then asked if I could "just sit in" a fiesta to see what they felt like, and he begrudgingly got me the key. I was expecting them to be a little small, but it's always hard to tell when you're just looking at them through a window. After a while, he came back with a key, and I hopped in and looked at it. It had a weird, 'too high up' feel; the car was small, but it felt like it would be topheavy. As soon as I got in, I noticed it was a 5-speed, so I asked him if I could try it out. He was speechless, and insisted that he didn't know they had a manual in stock other than the ST, but that I could try it out, so we took it for a spin around the block. I'm not sure what engine it had in it; it felt peppy, but sounded tinny. The transmission was terrible. When I was parking it, it ground going into reverse. The car actually felt more top heavy to drive than it felt just sitting in it. I seriously felt like my 17-year-old Escort was significantly nicer, an infinitely sportier. The Fiesta just felt cheap; like a modern remake of the Geo Metro. I was extremely disappointed. The salesguy said that the Focus was identical, just slightly larger. I noticed that the Fiesta 5-door had less room in the back than my '93 Civic hatch had, even though the Fiesta had more doors. The Civic was barely large enough for all my tools (I have a lot of tools I carry with me, for my work), so I'm not sure if the Fiesta would be. The Focus would probably by enough larger, but I'm not sure. The salesguy had had enough of me by that time, so he told me to call him if I wanted to look at the ST when it was ready, then walked away.

I'm okay with my wife driving an Escape, but I feel like a CUV is kind of a betrayal to my gearhead-hood, so I would tend to lean more towards a wagon. That having been said, there don't appear to be any wagons that would suit my needs. In the absence of any real wagons (specifically a Mazda6 wagon), I'm thinking my next car might just be a CX-5. Or a used Protege5 or pre-2009 Mazda6 wagon. We'll see.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 03:28

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Way to go crappy Ford dealers.......meanwhile the dealership I went to basically tossed you the keys to their STs and said "have fun" if you asked for a test drive. Why? According to my salesman "They sell themselves. We just shut up and collect our commission when someone asks for them". I think i paid about 500 above invoice for mine but I still had a solid 1500 knocked off MSRP and another 1250 in discounts for my FiST. Turns out, when you treat your customers right, you get......wait for it....PROFITS!

Apparently you found a dealer who has yet to get that memo and it sucks for them.

Zibodiz > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 08/03/2014 at 03:35

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Yeah, he was a dandy. I left out the part where he made sure to trash talk the other Ford dealer in our area. A real gentleman, he was.

nameuser > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 04:27

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so you wear a fedora and you test drove some automatic FWD cars

hell yeah bro opposite lock wooooooooo that's some wild shit boy, you outta control, blog blog blog, post post post

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > nameuser 08/03/2014 at 05:40

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See rule 1. And then leave.

GhostZ > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 06:35

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The CX-5 is legitimately one of (if not the) best CUV on the market, from what I've been reading.

If you want to go with the Ford vibe, your wagon savoir is the Ford Flex: (EDIT: Maybe not, after posting this. They come with AWD and decent power, but no manual)

They call it a crossover because it will sell better that way, but it's literally a Taurus/Five Hundred wagon, raised up a bit on an Explorer subframe I think.

As for driving dynamics, whatever it loses there it definitely gains back in style and quirkiness. Likewise, a classic Beetle isn't the most dynamic driving experience, but it's fun for the same reason, though taken to an extreme.

adda > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 07:47

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Same experience, I got the CX-5. I'm a wagon guy, I was coming off a Jetta 1.8T MT that just sort of imploded; as much as I liked driving that car VW is going to have to win me back. Maybe if the new SportWagen on the new chassis proves reliable, but honestly that thing was a maintenance nightmare. I have VW PTSD.

So what other wagon? Because after VW we're talking BMW, Cadillac, Volvo or Mercedes. In other words, at least 10-20k more than I paid for the Mazda. That leaves Subaru, and for comparable hauling capacity, the Forester. The CX-5 is lighter, shorter, gets better gas mileage, and has better performance (until the much more expensive XT trims).

Do I need the jacked up ground clearance? Not really. But in the current market, it's the closest thing I can find to an affordable, fun, fuel efficient wagon (yeah, I know I might have been able to find something used, but my circumstance didn't allow the luxury of hunting around the used market— no time and no wheels).

The Jalop mantra of "get a wagon" seems weirdly disconnected from what is actually for sale. I'll trade it in for a Mazda 6 wagon with a MT when Mazda sells them here but I'm not going to hold my breath.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 08/03/2014 at 08:09

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yup, the dealership I first tried to test a FieSTa at was all foot-draggy and wanted me to make an appointment and tried to upsell me on a FoST on the phone before I even got there... Then the car they had, which was in a color I didn't really want anyway, turned out to have a problem with the boost controller and went into limp mode on the test drive... At least they didn't try to blame me for that, then I found another dealer that a color I wanted and went there. They're a truck specialty dealer, but they also had several mustangs on the lot, including a boss302 and a gt500 convertible... And that day they were selling C-Maxs and Fusion Energies like freake'n hotdogs... Anyway, the salesman tosses me the keys and says "I think you'll like this, please bring it back in one piece" I left with it that same day.

N51fanatic > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 08:34

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We got my wife a Cx5 2 a little over two years ago. A GT AWD. Its a great CUV. My only complaint, is when I drive it, it feels a bit underpowered. I know they fixed this with the 2014 model, but our 2013 has the less powerful engine. The MPG's are great, and thats primarily why we got it. It carries a ton of stuff with the seats down.

kevinw > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 08:53

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The salesman sounds like a clown. Did you know ford owns Mazda?

shop-teacher > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 09:02

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My wife and I also test drove a GT AWD CX-5 yesterday, as a possible replacement for her '06 Mazda 3. I was really impressed. It was far roomier than I thought it would be (my wife and I are not small people). It handled pretty well, and had plenty of power for normal driving and freeway merging. It won't be my car, but I would not be ashamed to drive it by any means.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 10:34

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Was it like the Ford salesmen's first day? That dude NEEDS to be fired, like yesterday. People like that are why I'm glad I'm not a car salesmen anymore. ugh.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 10:37

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What a tool.

Renescent > GhostZ 08/03/2014 at 11:04

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This will be my next family hauler purchase.

Zibodiz > kevinw 08/03/2014 at 11:47

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Ford owns 2.1% of Mazda . They used to own more, which is why a lot of older Fords were rebadged Mazdas (like my Escort or my wife's Escape), but now they've almost completely cut ties with them. It's a shame, really. I love my FordMazdas.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 11:55

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Found a picture of your Ford salesman:

I really like Fords these days, and Mazdas. It's such a shame when the salespeople don't 1. know their product and 2. treat potential customers well. I know it's a tough business, and there are plenty of jerks on the other side of the transaction, but still. When treated fairly by a salesperson, I will go back to them, and have!

Zibodiz > nameuser 08/03/2014 at 12:07

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...huh? I wear a fedora (not to be confused with a trilby, which is a popular hat among hipsters/rappers/other popular groups), which is basically a floppy cowboy hat. I've never met another person who wears one. For reference, here's a picture of Indiana Jones wearing one:

I drive a 5-speed. I just wrote an article.... this article.... about how I would only buy a car that has a manual. I've owned about 20 cars in my lifetimes thus far, and only 3 have been automatics — and that includes a motorhome.

I used to DD and casually race a Miata. I put about 80k miles on it. It was the first vehicle I owned that wasn't a truck, and it really got me interested in things other than off-roading.

My current car was purchased for $850 and needed a fair amount of work, which I did myself. My last car before that was a Civic that I replaced the tranny & clutch in, by myself, in my back yard, under a tarp. I'm finally in a financial position where I could buy a new car if I wanted to, so I'm considering it. Still don't know which way I'll go — I might just replace the clutch in my Escort — but the choice is there for me. This story was just about part of my decision process.

I'm really not sure what stereotype you're trying to paint me into, but I like to think that I fit in on Oppositelock... I'm a gearhead who just plain loves cars. What are you? An Internet troll? Perhaps you're the the one who doesn't belong.

Zibodiz > GhostZ 08/03/2014 at 12:20

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Yeah, the flex is interesting, but the issues I have with it are the size and lack of a manual. It's huge. Then again, I feel like the Taurus is huge, too, so I guess the Flex ought to be. There's also the issue that they're almost twice the price of a CX-5 or a Mazda6. I can afford something in the $20k range, but $30-$40k+ puts things into a different category.

In a decade, I might testdrive a used one, but I doubt I'd be interested. Just too big for me. If a car's going to be that big, it needs to have off-road credentials and be body-on-frame; I'd lean more towards an Expedition.

Zibodiz > adda 08/03/2014 at 12:34

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Subaru is the other car I'm interested in, but haven't been able to test drive, since we don't have a dealer nearby. As much as I would prefer a true wagon, it's kind of ironic that the CX-5 CUV gets better fuel mileage than the anything Subie makes. The other advantage I see to a Forester is that it appears to have more rear visibility; I'm definitely going to try to test drive one before I make my final decision, but so far the advantages of the CX-5 seem to be winning. The XV Crosstrek is a pretty cool looking manual wagon, and in my price range, but it looks to be on the small side. I definitely want to test one, though. Maybe I need to take a drive to a city with a Subaru dealer soon lol.

adda > Zibodiz 08/03/2014 at 12:56

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I test drove the Subie and its sole advantage (since I don't need the 4WD) is visibility, which is definitely much better than the CX-5. However, with properly adjusted side mirrors and the back-up camera, I haven't had any problems.

Big differentiator for me was the fun factor. The CX-5 felt much more nimble, I like the suspension better, and the steering feels more in touch with the road. I think it's pretty clear the Mazda's engineers put more emphasis on sportiness than Subaru does with the Forester (haven't driven the XT trims, don't know if the ride is dialed for more responsiveness). And I vastly prefer the CX-5s interior. While some find it spartan, I find it minimal and driver-centric.

Makoyouidiot > nameuser 08/03/2014 at 13:59

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Random burner being an elitist douche? Check. This thread is now complete.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > N51fanatic 08/03/2014 at 14:45

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But they still don't let you get the manual with the 2.5 (same issue in the 3). Come ON, Mazda!